Ridley Scott Has One Major Complaint About Joaquin Phoenix's Joker

Four years after its debut, people are still talking about "Joker" — and now director Ridley Scott is weighing in on the discourse.

Speaking to Variety about his upcoming Napoleon biopic, led by Scott's "Gladiator" collaborator and "Joker" star Joaquin Phoenix, Scott said that while he thought Phoenix was fantastic as the troubled Arthur Fleck, the movie didn't really sit right with him.

"I was blown away by his outrageous film 'Joker.' I didn't like the way it celebrated violence but Joaquin was remarkable," he said. "I thought he'd be an amazing asset to Napoleon, [not only creatively] also in a commercial sense." 

Perhaps even more tantalizingly, Scott indicated that he almost went with a different actor for the role of Napoleon Bonaparte. As he told the outlet, "There were only two actors I had in mind for the role. I won't mention the other one." That lingering question aside, Scott does bring up a debate that's been raging since 2019: Does "Joker," a film in which Phoenix's Arthur rages against the system oppressing him and responds in a violent fashion, glorify bloodshed? The stars of the film — as well as its director Todd Phillips — have had plenty to say over the years, so here's a short primer on the brouhaha over "Joker."

Screen legend Robert De Niro, who plays late-night talk show host Murray Franklin in "Joker," told Variety back in 2019 that there was one aspect of the controversy that made sense to him. In advance of the movie's release, the families of victims of the tragic Aurora shooting that occurred during a 2012 midnight screening of "The Dark Knight Rises" expressed some concern that Todd Phillips' movie would spur real-life violence. The families even approached Warner Bros. (the studio behind "Joker") directly with a letter, asking that the studio, at the very least, take a stand on supporting politicians that actively give money to the National Rifle Association, and not donate to any said politicians.

"I know there's controversy," De Niro said at the time. "I think some of the things that were being said about Warner Bros. giving money, not endorsing — or whatever it was about the NRA — I think is right. Whatever people were saying connected with the Aurora theater or whatever organization it was." This is well-put, and De Niro also managed to skirt the stickier points of the controversy while still showing support for victims of tragic gun violence and their families.

So how did Todd Phillips respond at the height of the "Joker" controversy? In 2019, he and Joaquin Phoenix sat down with IGN to discuss their lightning rod of a film, and they had pretty different takes. Phillips, for his part, thought that a lot of the critiques were coming from people who hadn't even watched the film yet, and that its messages were more universal than they might think. He went on to compare himself to an acclaimed filmmaker who has spent his career making edgy, confrontational films with strong messages.

"I really think there have been a lot of think pieces written by people who proudly state they haven't even seen the movie and they don't need to," Phillips told the outlet. "I would just argue that you might want to watch the movie, you might want to watch it with an open mind. The movie makes statements about a lack of love, childhood trauma, lack of compassion in the world. I think people can handle that message [...] It's so, to me, bizarre when people say, 'Oh, well I could handle it. But imagine if you can't.' It's making judgments for other people, and I don't even want to bring up the movies in the past that they've said this about, because it's shocking and embarrassing when you go, oh my God, [some critics said the same things about Spike Lee's] 'Do the Right Thing.'" 

In that same chat with IGN, Phoenix took a slightly more nuanced approach to the issues surrounding "Joker," saying that the film focuses on a human tinder box and that the narrative has more roots in real life than anyone wants to think. Speaking about the movie's approach to mental health, Phoenix said, "I think if you have somebody that has that level of emotional disturbance, they can find fuel anywhere."

"It's uncomfortable," the Academy Award-winning actor continued. "It's uncomfortable for all of us. I think we all are aware of these issues and we're concerned, and I think that's why we talk about it," he said. "I don't think that we can be afraid to talk about it. So I understand why you asked that question. But I think the same way that you feel that you need to ask that question and engage in the conversation this way, I think that's how I feel as an actor. And that's all I have to say."

If you missed the original "Joker" discourse, don't worry. The sequel, "Joker: Folie à Deux," is scheduled to hit theaters in October of 2024.

If you or someone you know needs help with mental health, please contact the Crisis Text Line by texting HOME to 741741, call the National Alliance on Mental Illness helpline at 1-800-950-NAMI (6264), or visit the National Institute of Mental Health website.